tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7154359965221795553.post6603182315650861460..comments2024-03-01T14:27:35.794-08:00Comments on Albion Awakening: Spirituality Without GodBruce Charltonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09615189090601688535noreply@blogger.comBlogger6125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7154359965221795553.post-12295936237781900532017-03-10T23:44:34.290-08:002017-03-10T23:44:34.290-08:00@ajb - Yes. One way that modern Christians need to...@ajb - Yes. One way that modern Christians need to change the world, is to change the metaphysical assumptions (inculcated both directly and implicitly through the entire realm of public discourse) that rule-out meaning and purpose in life, and rule-out the validity of Christianity. <br /><br />What (we would agree) Christians *obviously* should NOT be doing is focusing their attention and efforts on secular, materialistic concerns pre-selected by the agents of godless materialism for their spiritually-destructive tendency - equality, diversity, foreign aid, global warming, feminism, promoting the sexual revolution and so on... which is exactly what the mainstream Christian churches currently actually do. This amounts to a kind of spiritual 'Stockholm Syndrome' (when it is not simply destructive subversion by fake-Christian leaders). Bruce Charltonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09615189090601688535noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7154359965221795553.post-11668283704529187222017-03-10T22:44:01.850-08:002017-03-10T22:44:01.850-08:00"So many Christians today that I know are obs..."So many Christians today that I know are obsessed with politics and worldly concerns and "changing the world" - a goal utterly foreign to a religion that said "render unto Caesar..."."<br /><br />Jesus conceived of himself as the King of the 5th Kingdom, which was prophesied to start sometime in the early 1st century and never end. You're right that his role wasn't conceived of as political, which is what many Jews at that time were expecting, but it was metapolitical - a spiritual kingdom that would change the world by infusing the divine into it. This is part of the sign of Jonah, that Jesus said would be the only sign given to that generation (Jonah converted the gentile city of Nineveh).<br /><br />So, I don't think the idea of changing the world was utterly foreign to early forms of Christianity.ajbhttp://makingsenseofchristianity.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7154359965221795553.post-45875346601360293872017-03-10T12:32:39.185-08:002017-03-10T12:32:39.185-08:00Very interesting comments. Thanks Chris. I do know...Very interesting comments. Thanks Chris. I do know that Buddhism doesn't actually deny God but he is still irrelevant to the religion especially in his personal form and, unlike the mystics you cite, I think the personal is not swallowed up in the Godhead but absolutely intrinsic to reality. It's right at the heart of it. Christian mystics like Eckhart may have thought the personal to be subsumed in an impersonal Godhead (he may not, I'm not sure)but Christ didn't appear to think that or why would he have spoken of the Father? The Godhead is not something that is above the Trinity of three persons in one God. If it were I don't see how creation or anything could have taken place. There must be differentiation within basic unity for anything to come about.<br /><br />But I do agree with most of what you say and I too believe that Mahayana Buddhism was influenced by Christianity. Not just by the obvious external modes of communication and exchange but actually spiritually speaking by the Incarnation of Christ which sent out, as it were, spiritual shockwaves throughout what one used to call the ether. I have the greatest respect for Buddhism and I think it can help to reorient a contemporary non-spiritual Christianity but ultimately i think it is a spiritual dead end for Westerners.<br /><br />Thanks again for your comments which provide much food for thought.William Wildbloodhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13231219533755925897noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7154359965221795553.post-55449846926002580832017-03-10T09:09:20.958-08:002017-03-10T09:09:20.958-08:00Buddhism would be the first to agree with you - th...Buddhism would be the first to agree with you - their idea of 'skillful means' says that means must be adapted to the situation, in some situations not emphasizing God might be the most spiritually helpful (like in ancient intensely theistic India where a focus on the Gods had become about ritual and dogma and detracted from the primary goal of spirituality, reduction of the ego), while in other situations a focus on God might be just the thing.<br /><br />As you no doubt know, Buddhists don't deny God at all, they merely focus attention away from him as not being conducive to spirituality - which back then, it might not have been. What's more, Buddhism always had the notion of a an impersonal God - the unconditioned, the uncreated, the Absolute - and this was an absolutely crucial concept in Buddhism as the realm we should be trying to reach, which, if it didn't exist, there would be no escape from suffering (in other words Buddha wasn't a "psychologist", or "scientific", he had a religious belief in another realm that was the lynchpin of his religion). This conception of the Godhead is shared by nearly all Christian mystics as well - it seems to be a universal. <br /><br />Later Mahayana Buddhism fully accepted the necessity and importance of a God, and developed a pantheon of divine Buddhas that offer consolation, love, and compassion in ways very similar to Christianity. Interestingly, Mahayana Buddhism developed after Christianity in a region of southern India known to have trading links to ancient Mediterranean ports, so it is quite possible the Mahayana concept of the Bohddisattva who refuses Nirvana out of love for sufffering beings was influenced by Christianity. Which would be fitting, as there is evidence that original Christianity was influenced by Buddhism (to my mind, this is undoubtedly true)<br /><br />Unlike you, William, I think Buddhism can play an extremely useful role in the spiritual regeneration of the Christian religion, because Christianity has become so tainted with worldliness that contact with an utterly pure form of spirituality like Buddhism, where the message of turning away from the world and overcoming ego has been preserved in purity, might help in returning Christianity to its roots and original purpose. <br /><br />So many Christians today that I know are obsessed with politics and worldly concerns and "changing the world" - a goal utterly foreign to a religion that said "render unto Caesar...". Rod Dreher, for instance, who I like and who has written eloquently on the need to overcome the ego and turn away from the world, is concerned because Christians our starting to find it hard to be wealthy middle class proffessionals in the current cultural climate. In my view, Christians shouldn't ever be wealthy middle class proffessionals, even if the climate is very favorable, or at least, this is hardly a major concern for a religion that is about renouncing the world, overcoming the God, and finding peace in God. <br /><br />But you are quite right that the modern West needs God, and Buddhism as it is would be inadequate for our particular spiritual needs. I am not suggesting it replace Christianity, merely that it can serve as a reminder of what we Christians should really be about.<br /><br />IF this were to happen, it would be a third instance of the ancient cross-fertilization between Buddhism and Christianity that has borne such happy fruit in the past.Chrisnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7154359965221795553.post-24151498896715480192017-03-10T04:13:02.215-08:002017-03-10T04:13:02.215-08:00Very helpful, thanks.Very helpful, thanks.RJWnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7154359965221795553.post-49103868080168084102017-03-06T23:56:21.434-08:002017-03-06T23:56:21.434-08:00@William - I agree.
Spirituality without God was...@William - I agree. <br /><br />Spirituality without God was thoroughly tried in the 1950s-70s (from the Beat generation's fascination with Zen and Hinduism through to the hippie era) and proved itself inadequate. Current Glastonbury is the nail in the coffin. <br /><br />But spiritual awakening seldom comes all at once, and spirituality without God is a reasonable beginning phase, so long as the person recognises its incompleteness and inadequacy and continues to develop. <br /><br />However, your point stands - it will not do!Bruce Charltonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09615189090601688535noreply@blogger.com